Steven Emerson: Law Enforcement Should Investigate Islamic Thinkers Society

By Andrew Cochran

In his post on April 21, Steven Emerson provided details of the outrageous slogans chanted at a rally in NYC of the Islamic Thinkers Society: "The mushroom cloud is on its way! The real Holocaust is on its way!" Steve discussed the rally and the Bin Laden audio tape on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes" last night, during which Steve called for an investigation into the ITS. You can see the video of the interview on the IPT site (Windows Media), and here is the transcript:

HANNITY: Welcome back to HANNITY & COLMES. Last week, members of the New York-based Islamic Thinkers Society, they held a rally outside the Israeli consulate in Manhattan to support anti Israeli suicide bombers. Now, protestors held signs like this one and chanted the mushroom cloud is on its way, the real Holocaust is on its way. And today, a audio tape purportedly from Osama bin Laden asked his followers to join Arab militia groups in the Sudan and fight against a proposed UN peacekeeping force the region. Joining us now is the executive director of the Investigative Project on Terrorism. Steve Emerson is back with us. Steve, welcome back. This may seem -- I'm a big believer in free speech. I really am. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater. There are limits on speech. It is frightening to me if you hold up a sign that says a mushroom cloud is on the way and people are saying this about America, what should we do in terms of looking at people that would do that and investigating them in your view?

STEVEN EMERSON, INVESTIGATIVE PROJECT ON TERRORISM: Well, that's a good question. I don't think it should be at this point made criminal, but certainly I think it should be the basis of a preliminary investigation into the group. I mean I was asking a friend of mine in law enforcement about what we should do and whether he considers them a danger. And I said to him that it's just rhetoric at this point and he said "at this point." Their exhortations to carry out violence really provide investigation into these individuals who are chanting for suicide bombing as well as for a nuclear holocaust against Israel as well as attacks on the United States.

HANNITY: It is so incendiary. "A mushroom cloud is on its way," "the real holocaust is coming." Would it be wrong -- Wouldn't the American people look at signs like that and the viciousness of that and think it is a pretty good idea for law enforcement to say who are these people and we need to know more about them?

EMERSON: Absolutely. Look, I remember right before 9/11, we took video pictures of a rally calling for support of Osama bin Laden, it was in April of 2001, calling for jihad and that was not considered to be actionable and nobody could investigate. After 9/11, they could. In the same way this group should be investigated, because I believe they present a potential danger to the security of the United States.

HANNITY: I think the idea that if we don't pay attention to something like this, I think we are seriously flawed in our fight on the war on terrorism here because I think we are looking at the extremists right here, we are looking at people that I wouldn't trust in any capacity. I want to move onto the Osama bin Laden tape released today. A lot of people say that in many ways, it sounded like a defeated Osama bin Laden in this tape. Why do you think people are analyzing it that way?

EMERSON: I think they are analyzing it that way because he is jumping around from issue to issue, from Darfur to the cartoons to the Arab Israeli conflict and trying to mobilize at least some type of Arab mass reaction on at least one of the subjects he covers. It looks like he was sort of desperate. On the other hand, the fact of the matter is that he has residence in the Muslim world, even Muslim clerics today refused to condemn him outright or to issue a counter fatwa that should have been done after 9/11, still has not been done with one exception. Therefore, he may feel quite the opposite. He may feel mobilized by the fact that he is secure enough to release a tape and he is filling a void in the Muslim world because nobody else is basically countering him.

COLMES: Hey, Dave, it's Alan, isn't this another reminder, and he knows it, that we haven't captured him in spite of promises that we would.

EMERSON: He has definitely - he is quite aware of the fact that he has not been captured and is willing to risk being captured by issuing tapes like this because they always provide a potential trail backwards or reverse the steps in terms of how he gets the tapes to al-Jazeera. On the other hand, he needs to be out there every three months, every six months to mobilize public masses in the Muslim world and to let them know he is not irrelevant. That's why I think people thought he was maybe being desperate.

COLMES: Is it true also that many Muslims, including Hamas have distanced themselves from bin Laden and don't like him because they feel he brought shame to them?

EMERSON: I don't know that Hamas feels he brought shame. I think they feel he is dirtying up their picture. But for the Israelis, Hamas is the equivalent of bin Laden and al Qaeda. There is no doubt about that. They want to kill all Jews and they have also made threats against the United States. I find the fact, Alan, that there are some linkages between al Qaeda and Hamas and other groups.

COLMES: The Hamas spokesperson has distanced himself from bin Laden and there are those that will say there is not really an operational link. I want to go back to the people who were demonstrating in New York. Doesn't that show that the argument that we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here and it is not necessarily that valid where indeed, the very people over here as of this weekend are saying all kinds of things that are in sync with what these groups are saying overseas that want to kill us?

EMERSON: Look, Alan, I would say to you that Islamic extremists are around the world. They are in Iraq but they are also in the United States. There is no doubt about it. And the good thing about this is they were being intellectually honest about what they felt about the United States, about Israel, about the FBI in terms of calling for its destruction. Other Islamic groups and leaders hide under the deception of being sort of moderate, civil rights oriented and pretend they are part of the mosaic when they are not. So I think the united states is home to a far greater number of extremists than the U.S. government has been willing to admit to.

HANNITY: All right. Steve, good to see you tonight. Appreciate you being with us.

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