Counterterrorism Blog

On Monday I posted about Imam Abdul Alim Musa of Washington, who was caught on tape, taken by Steven Emerson's Investigative Project on Terrorism, supporting Palestinian terrorists. Last night on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes," Steve discussed additional videos taken by IPT of Musa and showed one clip in which he threatens to lead an effort to "burn America down." Steve also revealed that Musa has been to Iran and the Sudan, and discussed other clips in which Musa apparently voices support for Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iran's late Ayatollah Khomeini. You can see the entire "H&C segment here, and the transcript of the program follows below.

As Steve suggested last night, if Musa personally traveled to Iran and the Sudan, did he also send money as "material support" to terrorists in those countries?

TRANSCRIPT OF "HANNITY & COLMES" INTERVIEW WITH STEVEN EMERSON, FEBRUARY 21, 2007

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY: Are you comparing America to Nazis?

IMAM ABDUL ALIM MUSA, MASID AL-ISLAM CENTER: Well, I think America is on the exact same road. I think George Bush is following the same prescription that Adolf Hitler...

HANNITY: All right. I want to run this tape. I want to run this next tape.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: That was Imam Abdul Alim Musa on "Hannity's America" this past Sunday. But this wasn't the first time the imam has made controversial remarks. We have video of him over the past seven years spewing hatred of the very country that he lives in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUSA: And America is the most criminal government in the world.

We they go out and strike at the heart of Zionism, they are not suicide bombers; they are heroes.

If you don't stay out of our way and leave us alone, we're going to burn America down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: Joining us now with new details about this in Washington, D.C., is terrorism expert Steve Emerson is with us.

Steve, I don't know if you saw some of what we had on Sunday night. I spent a lot of time with him on the radio today. The quotes about burning America down, comparing America, saying it's worse than Nazism; they're not suicide bombers, they're heroes. This is a very dangerous man in my view. Your thoughts?

STEVE EMERSON, TERRORISM ANALYST: I agree with you wholeheartedly. He's dangerous. Not just because of the thoughts that he utters but because of the influence that he generates.

Here, he's an imam that has control or influence over hundreds if not thousands of followers. He gives speeches at mainstream -- quote, "mainstream" rallies with other Islamic leaders in the United States. He's been to Iran and the Sudan on missions to essentially prop up those radical regimes.

HANNITY: Right.

EMERSON: He supports suicide bombings. And the effects that he has on his followers can be incendiary and cause violence.

HANNITY: He supports Hezbollah. And their manifesto, as we all know, calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. He supports Hamas. He supports the Ayatollah Khomeini. Remember, when he came into power, the Islamic Revolution, 444 days Americans held hostage. He had nice things to say about bin Laden in our interview.

It's interesting. He wants to hide it, especially when you confront him with his exact words, but clearly in an unguarded moment, when he doesn't know he's really being taped, this is what he says.

What can you do? What -- we believe in free speech, freedom of association, the ability to say anything you want. This is his belief system. What can we do?

EMERSON: Here's the quandary, but I'll tell you something shocking. He was invited to the White House Iftar dinner in December of 2000.

Here's a man who basically believes the United States should be destroyed. And yet he was invited along with other notables to this dinner -- August dinner that celebrated Iftar along with the president, President Clinton, at that point.

As far as what to do about it, look, the fact of the matter is that he is exploiting free speech. And unless he goes over that line in inciting someone to carry out violence or carries out violence himself, he's basically protected.

But I think, though, the FBI and other law enforcement agencies should be monitoring him full-scale.

ALAN COLMES: Steve it's Alan Colmes. This guy's real name, by the way, is Clarence Reeves. He was born in Arkansas and grew up in Oakland. And he converted to Islam.

HANNITY: A convicted drug dealer.

COLMES: Clearly, the fact is we do have free speech and we need a First Amendment to protect the very kind of speech, reprehensible though it is, as we just saw it, agreed?

EMERSON: I agree. I'm not saying arrest him on the basis of this, but I also am saying that in the same way that David Duke is considered to be dangerous in terms of his statements about blacks and Jews and -- merits an investigation, not necessarily an arrest. The same would be applying to him because he openly exhorts followers to carry out violence and suicide bombs.

COLMES: Should we investigate anybody who says things that are perceived -- only perceived but are blatantly anti-American. Should anybody who make that kind of speech be investigated by the federal authorities?

EMERSON: Well, when you say anybody, no, no, not anybody but anybody who follows a checklist like this in terms of supporting Hamas, supporting Hezbollah, supporting Iran, supporting suicide bombings, supporting bin Laden.

I think those are -- those are the type of indices that should mark somebody who should be investigated. Again, not necessarily arrested. But certainly gave more scrutiny as to what activities he might be engaged in.

COLMES: I'm a little cautious about the government investigating people who speak out, reprehensible though the things they are that they say.

Is there any evidence that this guy has said and done anything illegal, other than said some incendiary things, any evidence he's actually incited anybody to commit an illegal act or done anything illegal himself?

EMERSON: Well, first of all, he's traveled to Iran and the Sudan. Both regimes have severe restrictions in terms of -- imposed by the U.S. in terms of who can travel to them. And I don't know whether he has violated the IEPA restrictions in terms of traveling to those countries.

No. 2, I am not sure, but I would bet you, Alan, that he might have directed moneys to supporting, quote, "the resistance" in those countries because he's been so supportive of Hamas and Hezbollah.

HANNITY: Steve, if you support suicide bombings and say they're heroes, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Ayatollah Khomeini, Ahmadinejad and bin Laden, we better be watching you. And I hope our government is. This guy is very dangerous.

Thank you for being with us, Steve.

EMERSON: You bet.